AV Lifemiles: AVIANCA Lifemiles. Gutes neues StarAlliance Programm
- Starter*in northernstar84
- Datum Start
ANZEIGE
Der Fred ist recht lang und ich hab nur eine kurze Frage. Würdet ihr mir zustimmen, dass es Sinn macht hier zuzuschlagen, wenn man nächstes Jahr mit *A von TXL nach HNL in Business möchte? Würde nach meiner Rechnung 1800€+ Steuer etc. machen, und somit ein guter Preis sein. Brauche nur ne kurze Bestätigung, dass ich nichts wesentliches übersehen habe. Dank&Gruß
TXL -HNL ist mit LM ist eigentlich unmöglich, wenn man nicht sehr spontan ist. Lange im Voraus geht da nichts. Einzige Möglichkeit sehe ich mit einem Flug an die Westküste (SEA oder YVR )und von dort ein günstiges Payticket.
Hast Du denn schon einmal nach Verfügbarkeiten für Deine Reisezeit 2015 gesucht ? Im Idealfall kostet Dich z.B. FRA/XXX/HNL 60k in C; leider gibt es aber oft nur Einzelsegmente zu buchen, die kosten dann 52,5k für D-->USA Festland und extra 40k für USA Festland zu den Inseln. Im ungünstigsten Fall würdest Du dann 2x52,5 + 2x 40k benötigen, was zusammen 185k macht und etwas über € 2000,- kostet.
Ja.....aber das findest man nur sehr sehr spontan, oder täusche ich mich da? Hab ich schon öfters 1-3 Tage vor Abflug gesehen. Ist aber wohl nicht im Sinne des Users
Lieber YuLs, ich stimme Dir zwar rechnerisch zu, aber bei den Änderungen, mit denen Lifemiles gerade ihr Programm "optimieren", würde ich die Finger davon lassen, so viel Cash so früh auf den Tisch zu legen. Man kann den Burschen einfach nicht trauen. Es werden andere Aktionen kommen... Und Du kannst Dich dann immer noch fragen, ob Du sie nutzen willst.
Diejenigen hier, die sich über komplexere kostensparende Routings den Kopf zerbrechen, sollten sich, falls sie das noch nicht getan haben, über Kabotage informieren.
Besonders, wenn die USA Anfangs- und Endpunkt der Überlegungen sein sollten.
Vor wenigen Stunden wurde einem kanadischen Blogger das Boarding verwehrt, scheinbar hat er die Gefahr nicht richtig eingeschätzt.
Bitte nicht hier diskutieren, da er bereits ein Verfahren beim Transportministerium gegen die Luftlinie eingeleitet hat.
Ich gebe gerne über PM Auskunft, wenn jemand solche Routings gebucht hat und jetzt Befürchtungen hat.
(aber bitte mich nicht zu fragen, was das überhaupt ist. Da bitte ich Euch zunächst, Eure Hausaufgaben zu machen)
Besonders, wenn die USA Anfangs- und Endpunkt der Überlegungen sein sollten.
Vor wenigen Stunden wurde einem kanadischen Blogger das Boarding verwehrt, scheinbar hat er die Gefahr nicht richtig eingeschätzt.
Bitte nicht hier diskutieren, da er bereits ein Verfahren beim Transportministerium gegen die Luftlinie eingeleitet hat.
Ich gebe gerne über PM Auskunft, wenn jemand solche Routings gebucht hat und jetzt Befürchtungen hat.
(aber bitte mich nicht zu fragen, was das überhaupt ist. Da bitte ich Euch zunächst, Eure Hausaufgaben zu machen)
Genau das ist in Diskussion, wenn das auf einem Ticket erfolgt... Deshalb wahrscheinlich auch der Protest.
Na in dem Fall war es aber nicht diejenige Konstruktion, wegen der alle hier momentan warme Höschen bekommen beim Gedanken dran (5-Star-Agenda-Super-Airline), sondern eine andere Konstruktion (von der ich auch schon erfolgreich "profitieren" konnte ohne jegliches Murren)
ist mir nicht ganz klar, was Du meinst, GmK. Ich habe genau an diese Konstruktion gedacht und nicht warme Höschen bekommen. Mich hat nur gewundert, warum unser Freund nicht ab Kanada geflogen ist... Denn genau dieses Routing hat schon mal Probleme gemacht. Und alle, die gerne mit Gabeln essen, sollten das wissen. Wenn die Zinken etwas verbogen sind, isst es sich eben doch sicherer.
Habe mir jetzt via LM einen Flug mit SQ (SIN-LHR) gebucht, Ticketnummern sind inzwischen da. Mit dem Buchungscode (Amadeus) kann ich den Flug über checkmytrip einsehen bzw. über singaporeair.com auch Sitzplätze etc. wählen. Nur mein M&M Account weigert sich beharrlich, den Amadeuscode zu verstehen. Früher ging das mal - hat sich da was geändert? Auch über LOT hatte ich keinen Erfolg
Was ist das problem damit ?
Kabotage – Wikipedia
Zeigt sich mir nicht. Es gibt doch mehrere Möglichkeiten, dass das auch im regulären Flugverkehr vorkommen kann. Selbst auf einem Ticket.
Kabotage – Wikipedia
Zeigt sich mir nicht. Es gibt doch mehrere Möglichkeiten, dass das auch im regulären Flugverkehr vorkommen kann. Selbst auf einem Ticket.
Wenn es verbotene Kabotage wäre, könnt man es auch nicht buchen (ich glaube CPT-JNB mit TK ist so ein Beispiel). Über Avianca gebuchte Tickets sind alle regulär (die Flüge natürlich auch). LM berechnet die Tarife nur etwas seltsam...
Wer definiert denn wann und warum eine Kabotage verboten ist ? Hab ich noch nie von gehört.
Nehmen wir Dokumenten- oder organtransport. Kurier ist in CPT und muss eine Leber/Vertrag/Person/Suhshi aus IST abholen und nach JNB bringen?
Warum sollte da verboten sein per se ?
Nehmen wir Dokumenten- oder organtransport. Kurier ist in CPT und muss eine Leber/Vertrag/Person/Suhshi aus IST abholen und nach JNB bringen?
Warum sollte da verboten sein per se ?
So, da das Thema doch einiges an Wellen schlägt (sehe das an meiner Inbox), und doch weniger als ich dachte wissen, wie die Bestimmungen sind (und die deutsche Wikipedia das wirklich nur streift), erlaube ich mir, hier einen englischsprachigen Forumseintrag von einer gewissen Janet Doe (der Name gibt zu denken! ;-) zu re-posten, da er das wirklich im Detail erklärt und auch klare Empfehlungen abgibt. Und wenn jemand nicht Englisch spricht aber mehr wissen will, bitte um PM.
---- Mods, wenn Ihr denkt, dass hier nix auf Englisch sein sollte, bitte ich um Information oder Löschung ---
Just in case anyone is unaware, booking a flight between two US airports with a connection in a foreign country is ILLEGAL unless a domestic carrier is on the ticket. This concept is commonly known as cabotage.
The DOT fine for a carrier transporting a passenger in violation of cabotage rules is up to $25k per ticket. The DOT has enforced this several times over the past 15 years. Just google "DOT fine cabotage" for a string of examples, especially in far-flung airports administered by the DOT like ROR, SPN, GUM, etc. Cabotage is also the reason you cannot book a one-way ticket from NYC-YYZ-SEA or similar on Air Canada, because it would be a foreign carrier transporting between two points in the US via a connection point in a foreign country. It's also the reason that you cannot book QF LAX-JFK as a standalone flight.
Before we get panic questions, this definition means that it is NOT cabotage if:
1) a domestic US carrier operates at least one segment
2) it is sold as a round trip, where the foreign country is ticketed as a destination or a significant stopover (i.e. longer than 24 hours). This is why same-day-turn mile runs on foreign carriers are not cabotage.
3) AAA-XXX-BBB is never cabotage if AAA and BBB are not in the same country.
If you purchase a cabotage ticket, IDB regulations will almost certainly not apply for several reasons:
1) The IDB regulation applies to domestic carriers conducting domestic transport and to domestic or foreign carriers conducting foreign transport that originates in the US. Cabotage is a foreign carrier providing domestic transport, and therefore almost certainly does not fall under this regulation.
2) The IDB law is specific to oversell situations. Refusing transport under a valid reason listed in the CoC, or because a ticket is illegal and the airline will be fined, is not an oversell situation.
3) The IDB regulation specificly exempts situations where the passenger is not in compliance with the CoC. The airlines' CoCs will always have a clause that renders the contract and ticket void if it violates law.
4) There is no legal liability under US Contract law, (i.e. small claims court) because a fundamental precept of US contract law is that you cannot contract to do something illegal. No contract, no liability.
So if you have booked a cabotage ticket using Lifemiles, you should be fully aware that you can be subject to denied boarding, and the airline is both fully entitled and legally obligated to deny transport. In revenue ticket situations where these types of violations accidentally occur and are caught by the airlines, anecdotally, the solution is for the carrier to add a 24-hour stopover in the foreign transit point. Search FT for 'denied boarding cabotage' for examples.
If you are worried and/or do not have faith in your ability to negotiate with the airline in the event you are denied boarding due to cabotage, I would suggest cancelling your tickets and rebooking using a non-cabotage routing or a domestic carrier.
-------
Now, to the heart of the matter, and the reason that I decided to post as a newb in a megathread:
I recently received a communication from someone who filed a complaint with DOT when they were denied boarding on a Lifemiles ticket due to Cabotage. I asked him to retract the complaint, and this was his response:
I am out quite a bit of money in cancellation fees since my connecting flights from <omitted> can now no longer be used. Lifemiles should not have been selling these cabotage breaking tickets in the first place, and if they had, according to DOT regulations they should be fined. There are several others who have booked a similar ticket as me and it is only fair that they don't run into these issues as well, as they also have valid DOT claims.
He is absolutely correct when he says, "Lifemiles should not have been selling these cabotage breaking tickets in the first place." Won't it be great if he gets this terrible injustice 'fixed' for everyone? What a crusader for the rights of travel hackers everywhere.
Where he is incorrect is that the DOT violation does not occur for selling the ticket, it occurs for actually providing the transport. Please realize that the likely result of this complaint will be DOT congratulating the airline on catching this situation before it became a violation, with a firm follow-up reminder that any future violations will be enforced and subject to a $25k fine per occurrence. Worst case, the DOT could also decide to investigate how many infractions have occurred in the past and fine the airline for past violations of cabotage. For the reasons listed above, I doubt the DOT will consider any IDB compensation as a remedy.
The airline or the ticketing carrier will likely do a check on any tickets that have currently been issued for future travel and cancel the tickets that break US law. Hopefully, if they are well-organized, they will inform the passengers that their tickets are canceled and that they are receiving full refunds per the CoC.
I can also easily envision the airline(s) involved to take stringent measures to ensure that no tickets like this are issued again, by fixing whatever oversight caused the problem by talking to the agent / airline that issued the ticket. I am deeply afraid that this complaint will permanently "solve" the problem in the near future.
Personally, I intend to book any LM tickets I wanted for the next year ASAP, being sure to avoid cabotage by either a) using US domestic carriers or b) continuing my practice of never booking origin and destination in the US with a connection flight through a foreign country.
---- Mods, wenn Ihr denkt, dass hier nix auf Englisch sein sollte, bitte ich um Information oder Löschung ---
Just in case anyone is unaware, booking a flight between two US airports with a connection in a foreign country is ILLEGAL unless a domestic carrier is on the ticket. This concept is commonly known as cabotage.
The DOT fine for a carrier transporting a passenger in violation of cabotage rules is up to $25k per ticket. The DOT has enforced this several times over the past 15 years. Just google "DOT fine cabotage" for a string of examples, especially in far-flung airports administered by the DOT like ROR, SPN, GUM, etc. Cabotage is also the reason you cannot book a one-way ticket from NYC-YYZ-SEA or similar on Air Canada, because it would be a foreign carrier transporting between two points in the US via a connection point in a foreign country. It's also the reason that you cannot book QF LAX-JFK as a standalone flight.
Before we get panic questions, this definition means that it is NOT cabotage if:
1) a domestic US carrier operates at least one segment
2) it is sold as a round trip, where the foreign country is ticketed as a destination or a significant stopover (i.e. longer than 24 hours). This is why same-day-turn mile runs on foreign carriers are not cabotage.
3) AAA-XXX-BBB is never cabotage if AAA and BBB are not in the same country.
If you purchase a cabotage ticket, IDB regulations will almost certainly not apply for several reasons:
1) The IDB regulation applies to domestic carriers conducting domestic transport and to domestic or foreign carriers conducting foreign transport that originates in the US. Cabotage is a foreign carrier providing domestic transport, and therefore almost certainly does not fall under this regulation.
2) The IDB law is specific to oversell situations. Refusing transport under a valid reason listed in the CoC, or because a ticket is illegal and the airline will be fined, is not an oversell situation.
3) The IDB regulation specificly exempts situations where the passenger is not in compliance with the CoC. The airlines' CoCs will always have a clause that renders the contract and ticket void if it violates law.
4) There is no legal liability under US Contract law, (i.e. small claims court) because a fundamental precept of US contract law is that you cannot contract to do something illegal. No contract, no liability.
So if you have booked a cabotage ticket using Lifemiles, you should be fully aware that you can be subject to denied boarding, and the airline is both fully entitled and legally obligated to deny transport. In revenue ticket situations where these types of violations accidentally occur and are caught by the airlines, anecdotally, the solution is for the carrier to add a 24-hour stopover in the foreign transit point. Search FT for 'denied boarding cabotage' for examples.
If you are worried and/or do not have faith in your ability to negotiate with the airline in the event you are denied boarding due to cabotage, I would suggest cancelling your tickets and rebooking using a non-cabotage routing or a domestic carrier.
-------
Now, to the heart of the matter, and the reason that I decided to post as a newb in a megathread:
I recently received a communication from someone who filed a complaint with DOT when they were denied boarding on a Lifemiles ticket due to Cabotage. I asked him to retract the complaint, and this was his response:
I am out quite a bit of money in cancellation fees since my connecting flights from <omitted> can now no longer be used. Lifemiles should not have been selling these cabotage breaking tickets in the first place, and if they had, according to DOT regulations they should be fined. There are several others who have booked a similar ticket as me and it is only fair that they don't run into these issues as well, as they also have valid DOT claims.
He is absolutely correct when he says, "Lifemiles should not have been selling these cabotage breaking tickets in the first place." Won't it be great if he gets this terrible injustice 'fixed' for everyone? What a crusader for the rights of travel hackers everywhere.
Where he is incorrect is that the DOT violation does not occur for selling the ticket, it occurs for actually providing the transport. Please realize that the likely result of this complaint will be DOT congratulating the airline on catching this situation before it became a violation, with a firm follow-up reminder that any future violations will be enforced and subject to a $25k fine per occurrence. Worst case, the DOT could also decide to investigate how many infractions have occurred in the past and fine the airline for past violations of cabotage. For the reasons listed above, I doubt the DOT will consider any IDB compensation as a remedy.
The airline or the ticketing carrier will likely do a check on any tickets that have currently been issued for future travel and cancel the tickets that break US law. Hopefully, if they are well-organized, they will inform the passengers that their tickets are canceled and that they are receiving full refunds per the CoC.
I can also easily envision the airline(s) involved to take stringent measures to ensure that no tickets like this are issued again, by fixing whatever oversight caused the problem by talking to the agent / airline that issued the ticket. I am deeply afraid that this complaint will permanently "solve" the problem in the near future.
Personally, I intend to book any LM tickets I wanted for the next year ASAP, being sure to avoid cabotage by either a) using US domestic carriers or b) continuing my practice of never booking origin and destination in the US with a connection flight through a foreign country.
Wenn es buchbar ist, ist es ja nicht verboten. Aber es kann z.B. ein Land einer ausländischen Fluggesellschaft verbieten das Segment Land Stadt 1 - Land Stadt 2 der Strecke Ausland - Land Stadt 1 - Land Stadt 2 zu verkaufen. IMHO ist das bei dem TK Flug IST-JNB-CPT so.
Seit wann ? und wenn, dann nicht konsequent. Gestern abend hab ich kurzfristig noch einen Flug von xxxxxxxxxxxxx zu Dirk xxxxxxxxxxxxx gesehen...
Edit: Auf mehrfachen Wunsch die Orte entfernt...
Zuletzt bearbeitet: